Dear Azure,
Its nice to be missed. I have been here, but didn't have much to say. Also Ihad some appointments that took up my time and some extra work for Ben. Yes, Benand I are fortunate that we love each other very much. Now, to continue the conversation.... *********
Mary wrote:You have not understood what I wrote about my parents. My mother did NOT marry my father after two weeks. She said "Stan, I HARDLY KNOW YOU!" Then she went out with him for a long time until they really did know each other. They did notmarry for at least a year after they met. My mother knew my father was a good man because her sister's fiance knew him and his family. Therefore she did not worry about him being bad.
*********Azure wrote:I will never agree with him.” Even the girl likes the boy very much; she would refuse him without hesitation! So you know, classical Chinese love is based on understanding each other and time. [Azure means if the man speaks of love too soon. -Mary]
*********
Mary wrote:I believe that I must be a classical Chinese lover then, if it is based on an understanding of each other, and time. :-) Because that is what I believe isnecessary before marriage. Sufficient time to know the real character of the other is essential, and all the practical things that are important later in marriage such as: do you like children, do you want a child after you are married? How to manage finances together? How to raise children? What were your parents like to you? How do you get along with my family?
There should'nt be any sleeping together before marriage. One reason for that is because it changes the atmosphere between you. You have skipped the necessary time of learning about each other. Another reason is because there must be a true and binding seal of agreement between you. If marriage isn't offered there isn't a good enough bond. That's what I believe, and if there isn't a strong enough bond why would you give your most intimate self and your life into the hands of the other?
Of course you are right, it takes three months or half a year for this. That is the way Ben and I did it, too. In fact, what you have described as classical Chinese love is the way it is the classical way in the West, too. There has beena breakdown in the past few years, helped along by the imaginary movies and books. Many try to hold the reader's or viewer's attention through sex. Then people with still malleable character and a lack of morals and understanding of the valid need for good morals think that is an example of how they should be.
*********Azure wrote:Maybe we are classical Chinese lovers? So the most difference between Chinese love and western love is time and style of expressing love. A smart boy never asks a girl to marry him quickly! He would think over the girl’s hint, which she’s willing to marry him, then he would grasp the good opportunity and ask her to marry him.
*********Mary wrote:This is exactly the way it usually is done here unless the two are living together. Unfortunately many women are stupid enough to live with a man without marriage. Studies have found that people who DO live together and then marry have a greater divorce rate than those who DO NOT live together, and then marry.
********* Azure wrote:In Paris or Roman a pretty girl is walking along the street, someone strange come up to say, “Hi, beauty, I love you! Could you marry me?” she would be glad and think it’s normal because others’ inquire expresses that she’s charming and beautiful. But if it happens in China she would think the man is a rascal or abnormal man. She thinks the man is annoying her; sometimes she might call for policeman to get help.
*********Mary wrote:I am not talking about Paris or Rome. I am talking about Canada. I've heard of that, in Paris or Rome. It isn't a compliment, it's insulting. I have never seen it on the streets here. Europe is not North America. All Westerners are not alike, nor are their cultures.
*********Azure wrote: What I mentioned above is just one aspect of difference. Now I will tell the implied love I prefer. It’s not easy for me to say “I love you” in my idea. Just as the love of Wenly and hero (the Campus Story). The hero never said “I love you” to Wenly, neither did Wenly. But they knew they love each other deeply. Our hero cares more about Wenly and accompanied with her when she was in great distress. She could feel his love and she knew he loved her deeply. When she left school she didn’t say farewell to him. She thought he would go with her if she did so. That’s the typical Chinese love story. There are no words such as “I love you” between hero and heroine. This is just one style of love, I don’t object other style, but I prefer this one. *********Mary wrote:Stories must be written differently from real life. There must be many twists and turns and troubles to keep the story going and the reader interested. I often think as I read -- "Oh! Why didn't he just do the sensible thing!" Or "how could she fall into such a foolish trap!" "Or why didn't he tell her that?" That is the nature of fiction. In real life we act differently from the way we doin stories. You usually can't take fictional happenings as direction for the way you should live your life, unless you take them as warnings about what to avoid doing.
If Wenly didn't want him to follow her, of course she didn't say "I love you" tohim. when she knew he loved her. A wise girl can read a man's eyes and body language, and will not encourage where she doesn't want him to go. We have a saying "Absence makes the heart grow fonder." However, it has often been found that too long an absence is not good for love. It is likely that he would not have loved her after all that time. He would have drifted away and found another to love. It sounds good in stories but without a deeper experience of each other I don't think their love would have lasted for years without seeing each other. They weren't married and didn't have years of experience together, after all.
There are varying degrees of love. I would always be very careful and only say "I love you" to a man I deeply and romantically love, such as my husband. If I were young and unmarried I would only say it if he said it first, and only if I DID love him.
I think you will find that such stoicism as you describe of not telling the other of love, if carried into marriage, leaves a wife's heart without something that would give her a lot of happiness. This discussion about masculine stoicism has been here on the forum before.
It is true that when a man cherishes you with his actions you know it. However, it is wonderful when he also tells you that he loves you and uses his words to tell you why. It doesn't take many words. Maybe you don't care if she ever tells you that she loves you? It is enough if she cooks your favourite meal sometimes, and brings you a drink when you first awaken, and plays your favourite music to welcome you home if she is there first? And if a child arrives and she has to use her time to tend it won't a word that you are still dear in her heart mean a lot to you? Best to you, Azure,
Mary
