Neil’s discussion with Dove…===============================================I’m also browsing another book called: “Rumours of another world – What on Earth are we missing?” by Philip Yancey, which I ordered through the Amazon website from the US. I feel I’m getting a bit more religious lately after watching Mel Gibson’s masterpiece: “The passion of the Christ”, and actually started to spend some time flipping through the Bible. The movie was extremely powerful for me, I couldn’t help but busted into tears when I saw Jesus saying: “Father, forgive them, they don’t know what they’re doing”, right at the moment that the Roman soldiers pushed a big iron nail through His feet! And before passing away, Jesus said: “Father, I’m now in your hands, please lead the way…It’s nowcompleted”, I was shocked by the unconditional love Jesus shown, throughout the movie. Perhaps He was literally talking to a supernatural being? Perhaps there is another non physical world out there beyond our physical universe? Completed? What’s completed? Perhaps Jesus was actually sent to this world from another spiritual world, and His mission has been completed so He returned to his own supernatural world? The movie has such a huge impact on me that I’ve been brooding over the topic days after I watched it. It gave me several sleepless nights. Tim and Mary had a brief discussion about this movie in Canuck’s comments before, but that was before I watched the movie. It was interesting to see that when Jesus’ student cut of one of the Roman soldier’s ears, Jesus picked up the ear and push it back against the soldier’s head, and all the bleeding stopped and the wound healed immediately, and yet Jesus didn’t heal himself when He was tortured and crucified to death by the Romans. Perhaps the suffering was all intended, because He was sent here to suffer for us humanity so that we can eventually heal from our own sins? “Rumours of another world” by Philip Yancey is very very deep and when I finish reading it, I will share some of the profound writings with you. I’m not an extremely religious person but I feel I begin to have great interest exploring the profundity of Christianity. I now understand why Isaac Newton brooded deeply into Religion in his senior years, instead of exploring further in the world of Physics. I find that spiritual readings can sometimes calm myself down from this hectic and chaotic modern life.=================================================Mary’s discussion with Neil…=================================================Dear Neil:
I am convinced that there is a life to come. Also that it is not troubled by restrictions of time and space. It is somehow buried in the deepest heart of this world and also in the deepest and best heart of each of us. I know that this world is the world of tests where we learn, and also where we are proven as to what kind of souls we are. The next world is like the real world and this world is like its reflection in water. I'm trying to say that the next world is the Real world and this world is like a faithful image reflected in water. We are really here in this material world, though, and it isn't just the dream of some great Power, as some people think. More I don't know, but I am very interested as I, and all of us draw ever nearer to it since our maturity. So did you find anything that would add to my understanding in your book about "Rumours of another world" I see you haven't read them yet. I have so many books I haven't found time to read yet. I bought four yesterday and six on the trip! I personally already do have a "purpose driven life". About "The New Revelation...etc." I'm a Baha'i (Baha: of or relating to a religion founded in 1863 in Iran and emphasizing the spiritual unity of all humankind) and believe that Baha'u'llah brought a New Revelation and its purpose is to unify the whole human race as one family on this eventually well loved planet, our home. There is much more, but I don't want to presume on your interest. I would like that very much. Do you think we should do it on the forum as Tim and I sometimes do? It may introduce some interesting and valuable topics. I feel quite happy discussing these things as long as no one tries to impose a belief on any other. I am convinced that it is each human's duty to find "truth" for themselves and I wouldn't want to interfere. But discussion and trading of information is a wonderful thing. I always prefer consultation in life. In fact, that is one of the treasures Ben and I have in our marriage. It is a marvellous tool and is getting better every year. Consultation is one of the skills that Baha'is are taught is the way to make decisions and we have much interest in it. I was not interested in the movie about in the movie by Mel Gibson about Jesus' death. I think it was exploitative and do not intend to see it. Jesus was a very rare Being of another order than any of us. His death was caused by the ignorance and degradation of others. It was a terrible thing for humans to do, to be so blind to such goodness, beauty and wisdom that was given to us by God. It was a great tragedy. However the greatness of Jesus wasn't in what priests have put together about it, making His death almost everything. The incredible gift of His loving guidance and the power He brought into the world is still in action today. I believe that this is what His resurrection means. To me it means that He wasn't gone from any of us even though they could kill His physical body. I don't want to in any way force my thoughts or beliefs on you who have your own path to travel and find your way with the help of your soul and God. I would be happy to have this discussion on the forum and hope you may be able to cut and paste the discussion we have had so far as an opener to the discussion. I am really looking forward to your opinions about whatever is in those books you bought. I think I'll write about the books I bought on the forum, too. I was interested that you spoke of your new interest in religion. I think this is starting to happen all over Canada. The tide is turning back, away from the "God is dead" and strictly materialistic approach to life. It will be interesting to see what independent minded and detached scientists will have to say about it as they try to understand life on this planet and in space, more and more. Personally, I find the infinite perfection of all life proves that it didn't come into being mindlessly. Now thirty scientists have come out saying that the "Big Bang" theory isn't correct. That it is being supported more and more by hypotheses that are unproven yet needed to support it. Another concept seems to be appearing in science related to the whole having always existed backwards into infinity, and that it will always exist, forward into infinity. That is a remarkable thing to contemplate! Of course it is impossible to imagine such a thing. But we say that of "God", too. Those of us who believe there is only one God, and that the supreme great Power that is called by various names down through the ages, and at present in this world, is actually only the great One. If only people could grasp that they might feel closer to each other. For instance, "Allah" and "God" are the same. Just different words, and it has always been that way. So when I read about Aztecs sacrificing living human hearts I remember that the one God has never left humankind alone, so I have come to the tentative conclusion that this is something once taught by a great Teacher from God Who probably taught that God wants our living human hearts for His own, and that we should not attach them to materialistic concerns. As Jesus said "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars, and unto God, the things that are God's." Well, the human heart is what your and my God wants. Wants us to love and cherish and obey and communicate, and be friends with and so on. And not let be stolen away from Him. So I think down through the ages since that Teacher from God taught those Mesoamerican peoples who became the Aztecs, there were priests who slowly interpreted and added to the pure words with their deficient understanding, until at last they actually arrived at the terrible and very materialistic bastardization of the original teachings so that they cut out living human hearts for the god. That debasement always happens in each religion. The older the religion the more distorted the teachings. However, if you can come to the things that are alike in each of them you are coming much closer to the original Teachings of the great Teachers who have come from age to age. I find this helps me very much to relate to others of all times. Baha'i Faith teaches that the human race is one great organism. I haven't contemplated this very deeply yet, but it extends to all humans who have ever lived, all of us on this globe now, and all who will come in the future. It really is a breath-taking concept, because you yourself are an organism. Your hair, your eyes, your fingernails, your liver, your toes, everything in you all cooperate together for the whole. With anything missing you aren't complete. Of course, you can lose a fingernail, but you would miss it and you wouldn't look as perfectly formed without that living nail on your finger. If you lost your eyes that would be a much greater loss, yet all parts are needed. So what does this say about the human race as an organism? And I haven't even begun to contemplate what it means through the past and the future and all time. As you think of these kinds of things, if you find them reasonable, I would be very happy to hear anything that might occur to you about them because I would like to understand more, and as I said, consultation is a wonderful tool, and the more minds focussed on a topic the better rounded the vision. So if not interested in this, it's alright. But if it does strike a chord with you, or you have some thoughts come to mind, please share them with me. I believe we should be rather scientific in our method about religion, and not just science. Science and religion should illuminate each other. If not, science can become horrible, and a materialistic monster, but so can religion if it isn't tempered by science. It becomes superstition too easily. Personally, I don't believe in believing just because I'm supposed to believe. I need to bring both parts of myself to my beliefs and they have to make sense to my mind and my heart. Well, Neil, this is truly the end of this train of thought because we both need to carry on life on this plane. Right?
Affectionately,Mary
